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Brendan Halstead's avatar

> This too, I am skeptical of. How can you craft a perfect continual learning algorithm without a proper diverse set of problems to learn over? That’s how evolution did it. It’s just not clear to me that the datacenter of automated AI researchers would be able to judge the relative merits of one continual learning algorithm over another without a real problem set to test it on.

Doesn’t this depend on the premise that “there will be many continual learning algos that perform equally well at learning skills in any synthetic environments you can possibly set up, but which nonetheless differ significantly in their ability to learn skills in ‘the real world’”?

This is possible I guess, but it seems unlikely to me.

Nick Condorcet's avatar

Great post! I’m glad someone wrote this up into a coherent view, and I think it’s an accurate model of LLMs and their near-term successors (“LLMs relate to most tasks as McKinsey does to running a company” is one of many banger lines).

I think the weakest spot in your argument — and the biggest open question here — is the implicit claim about how much real-world data you’d need to properly test your algorithms, especially continual learning algos (Brendan makes a version of this point, as did Tom Davidson in his tweet thread with Bradley).

If it takes a lot of data — the “turn the whole economy into RL environments” world that Mercor et al. imagine — then that’s great news, and the country in the datacenter won’t get very far on its own. Your argument implicitly takes this stance (though correct me if I’m wrong!), and within the LLM paradigm I think that’s a reasonable expectation.

If it doesn’t take much data — either because RL for LLMs starts to generalize, as Dario expects, or because Grok 6 can test its continual learning algos perfectly well with a couple hundred Optimus robots roaming around Colossus’s backyard for a year — then the argument is much less comforting. I’m not sure how to weigh the evidence here, but I’m not as convinced as you seem to be that we’ll end up needing the world economic RL env (particularly for non-LLM paradigms, e.g. Steve Byrnes’s Brain-like AGI).

One intuition that might differentiate our views: evolution needed lots of time and diverse problems to develop the brain’s algorithms, but we have some big advantages over evolution. Obviously we can take much more strategic actions (e.g. deciding to scale up an architecture by many OOMs within a few years), but perhaps more importantly we have a working example of a sample mega-efficient general intelligence algorithm in our brain. If (and it’s a big if!) we could reverse engineer it even partly (e.g. to where we have chimp-level brain algos), that might greatly reduce the amount of data we’d need to test our AGIs.

That said, it’s not clear at all whether that kind of reverse engineering work is on track to being automated (e.g. maybe it involves lots of neuroscience or taste/generalization), or whether hundreds of humans working on it irl have made that much progress (unclear how to measure that).

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